Subject: Re: [Time Sink Talk] auto-export and timer auto-reset not working well together?

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 19:34:22 -0700

On May 17, 2015, at 2:10 PM, Noleli <[email-masked]> wrote:

> This isn't really a big deal for me personally because I'm just gathering the data for fun, but it seems like better behavior would be to check if it's set up to auto-export regularly since the last export, and if so, don't clear data that hasn't been exported yet.

We hope to improve this in a future release (though it gets a bit tricky making sure we're doing what the user wants us to do, versus protecting them from doing something stupid).

regards,
-rob.

---

From: Noleli <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 14:10:45 -0700 (PDT)

I'm going to bump this old thread again. I've been auto-exporting reports 
for over a year, daily at midnight with data since the last export. Aside 
from the annoying but understandable quirk of using the post-midnight date 
for the previous day's data, it's been working great.

I noticed TS getting increasingly more CPU intensive, though, so I checked 
the FAQ and found that clearing out the data can be helpful. I did this 
today, and it's made a huge impact on CPU usage. However, because I ticked 
the box in the middle of the afternoon, I've essentially lost all data 
gathered between midnight and when ticked the box.

This isn't really a big deal for me personally because I'm just gathering 
the data for fun, but it seems like better behavior would be to check if 
it's set up to auto-export regularly since the last export, and if so, 
don't clear data that hasn't been exported yet.

Thanks!

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 at 4:54:02 AM UTC-5, Ian Wood wrote:
>
> Well, I'm one of those lazy types who always seems to be in too much of a 
> hurry to read instructions! 
>
> That said, a couple of words, perhaps information in a rollover, would go 
> a  long way.. I'm probably not the only lazy type seeking to track their 
> computer usage. 
>
> drevicko 
>
> On 13/08/2014, at 3:37 AM, Rob Griffiths <[email-masked] 
> <javascript:>> wrote: 
>
> > On Aug 8, 2014, at 9:55 AM, drevicko <[email-masked] <javascript:>> 
> wrote: 
> > 
> >> May I suggest a change in this behaviour? When a user checks 
> auto-reset, timesink could verify if auto-export is enabled and if there is 
> any exportable activity since the last export. If so, is should either 
> perform an export before doing a reset or not do the reset until the next 
> auto-export (it could ask the user even). 
> >> 
> >> As it stands, it's all too easy for a user to lose valuable information 
> (I just lost information, but luckily it isn't worth dollars!). 
> > 
> > Thanks for the good feedback; it's definitely an issue, and we'll see 
> what we can do to minimize the chance of data loss in a future update. 
> > 
> >> Another point: this behaviour is not at all clear from the settings 
> panels - perhaps it'd be good to add some explanatory notes to that effect, 
> perhaps put both settings in the same panel, since their action is tied so 
> closely? 
> > 
> > There is some explanation of what goes on in the help file; did you read 
> those? 
> > 
> > regards; 
> > -rob. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > -- 
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>

---

From: Ian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 11:54:04 +0200

Well, I'm one of those lazy types who always seems to be in too much of a hurry to read instructions!

That said, a couple of words, perhaps information in a rollover, would go a  long way.. I'm probably not the only lazy type seeking to track their computer usage. 

drevicko

On 13/08/2014, at 3:37 AM, Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]> wrote:

> On Aug 8, 2014, at 9:55 AM, drevicko <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
>> May I suggest a change in this behaviour? When a user checks auto-reset, timesink could verify if auto-export is enabled and if there is any exportable activity since the last export. If so, is should either perform an export before doing a reset or not do the reset until the next auto-export (it could ask the user even).
>> 
>> As it stands, it's all too easy for a user to lose valuable information (I just lost information, but luckily it isn't worth dollars!).
> 
> Thanks for the good feedback; it's definitely an issue, and we'll see what we can do to minimize the chance of data loss in a future update.
> 
>> Another point: this behaviour is not at all clear from the settings panels - perhaps it'd be good to add some explanatory notes to that effect, perhaps put both settings in the same panel, since their action is tied so closely? 
> 
> There is some explanation of what goes on in the help file; did you read those?
> 
> regards;
> -rob.
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Time Sink Talk group. To post to this group, send email to [email-masked]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email-masked].
> 
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> 
> --- 
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---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:37:45 -0700

regards;
-rob.

---

From: drevicko <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 09:55:38 -0700 (PDT)

May I suggest a change in this behaviour? When a user checks auto-reset, 
timesink could verify if auto-export is enabled and if there is any 
exportable activity since the last export. If so, is should either perform 
an export before doing a reset or not do the reset until the next 
auto-export (it could ask the user even).

As it stands, it's all too easy for a user to lose valuable information (I 
just lost information, but luckily it isn't worth dollars!). 

Another point: this behaviour is not at all clear from the settings panels 
- perhaps it'd be good to add some explanatory notes to that effect, 
perhaps put both settings in the same panel, since their action is tied so 
closely? 

I have to say timesink is a lovely application - I wish I had something 
like it for my Ubuntu machines also! Many thanks (:

Drevicko

On Saturday, February 5, 2011 2:45:00 PM UTC+1, Many Tricks wrote:
>
> On Feb 4, 2011, at 2:14 PM, visnu pitiyanuvath wrote:
>
> > hm, ok. so I have what looks like an abbreviated 2011-02-04.csv that was 
> created today at 9:16AM (when I woke my computer from sleep). all it 
> contains is:
>
> I asked Peter about this, and here was his explanation:
>
> >> If he checked auto-resetting in the evening of Feb 3, hours after he 
> checked auto-exporting, this could happen. If TS hasn't auto-reset on a 
> given day already (and if the time of day criterion is met), checking the 
> option will cause an instant auto-reset, which should have been visible in 
> TS's UI as well.
> >> 
> >> Going forward, as long as he keeps both options enabled, there 
> shouldn't be any more problems, because this is how it basically works 
> (pseudo-code):
> >> 
> >> if (the time-of-day criterion is met) {
> >>         if (I'm supposed to auto-export) {
> >>                 if (I haven't already auto-exported today) {
> >>                         export;
> >>                 }
> >>         }
> >>         if (I'm supposed to auto-reset) {
> >>                 if (I haven't already auto-reset today) {
> >>                         reset;
> >>                 }
> >>         }
> >> }
> >> 
> >> (For simplicity, I'm treating both auto-reset options as one in this 
> representation.)
> >> 
> >> As you can see, there's simply no way these will run in the wrong order 
> during normal operation, unless either auto-export or auto-reset has been 
> freshly enabled.
>
> So at this point, it should be working right -- as long as both settings 
> are enabled. If you see it again, though, please let us know.
>
> regards,
> -rob.
>
>

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 08:19:10 -0700

On Sep 25, 2013, at 9:28 AM, Aaron Bohannon <[email-masked]> wrote:

> after midnight on the day of the export (which is often nothing, unless I'm 
> on my computer really late).

This was exactly the issue; finding what was causing it took some serious digging, but it seems our fix works. For anyone who'd like to try it, here's the beta:

<http://manytricks.com/download/_do_not_hotlink_/_beta_/timesink1213.dmg>

Install this somewhere where it won't overwrite your standard Time Sink app, let it run overnight so an export happens, then check the export -- hopefully you'll see the full previous day's activities. It's working in our testing, but it'd be great to have some real world testers, too.

thanks;
-rob.

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 15:11:34 -0700

On Sep 25, 2013, at 9:28 AM, Aaron Bohannon <[email-masked]> wrote:

> This is an old thread, but I am experiencing the same issue, so it seems to be still unresolved.  I have been using TS for almost a year with auto-export enabled and set to 6am, with it set to export all the data since the previous export.

Good news -- we think we've found and fixed a subtle bug that was causing the problem. I need to do some testing with tomorrow's export to be sure before we distribute the fix -- but if this works, we'll have a beta version for people to use until we get the release out.

regards,
-rob.

---

From: Aaron Bohannon <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:28:31 -0700 (PDT)

This is an old thread, but I am experiencing the same issue, so it seems to 
be still unresolved.  I have been using TS for almost a year with 
auto-export enabled and set to 6am, with it set to export all the data 
since the previous export.

TS only exports a handful of entries each day.  Checking some of the 
timestamps, it seems that TS may be exporting everything that happened 
after midnight on the day of the export (which is often nothing, unless I'm 
on my computer really late).

Fortunately, I was careful to _not_ enable auto-reset.  So I can still get 
all of my data (in one huge 200,000-line .csv file).  I've written a script 
to summarize the exported data, and I'd really like to be able to run it on 
a single day's data without doing a manual export and manual reset every 
day.

...Aaron

On Monday, February 14, 2011 12:53:45 PM UTC-5, Visnu Pitiyanuvath wrote:
>
> quickly, here are the file sizes and timestamps for the auto-export 
> reports: 
>
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff    7996 Feb  2 06:00 2011-02-02.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff  222619 Feb  3 09:23 2011-02-03.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff     187 Feb  4 09:16 2011-02-04.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff    1326 Feb  5 18:38 2011-02-05.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff    3134 Feb  6 06:00 2011-02-06.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff     289 Feb  7 09:28 2011-02-07.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff   45285 Feb  8 09:45 2011-02-08.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff   30233 Feb  9 09:22 2011-02-09.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff     444 Feb 10 09:15 2011-02-10.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff     110 Feb 11 06:00 2011-02-11.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff     449 Feb 12 06:00 2011-02-12.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff   92840 Feb 13 06:00 2011-02-13.csv 
> -rw-r--r--@ 1 visnup  staff   89465 Feb 14 06:00 2011-02-14.csv 
>
> doesn't look like time of day to generate the report affects the 
> outcome. not sure if that helps. 
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2:54 pm, Visnu Pitiyanuvath <[email-masked]> wrote: 
> > let me know if I can help provide some sort of debugging info. 
> > 
> > On Feb 12, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]> wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > On Feb 12, 2011, at 10:53 AM, visnu pitiyanuvath wrote: 
> > 
> > >> for the past three days, I've had abbreviated exports again. I have 
> > >> not changed the auto-export and auto-reset settings at all for a 
> week. 
> > 
> > >> the auto-export settings are set to "all" and the last three have 
> > >> between one to eight items (and I've definitely done more than eight 
> > >> things on a day). 
> > 
> > > Thanks; we'll have to dig into this, as that's clearly not the desired 
> (or expected) behavior. 
> > 
> > > -rob. 
> > 
> > > --

---

From: visnu pitiyanuvath <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:53:45 -0800 (PST)

On Feb 13, 2:54 pm, Visnu Pitiyanuvath <[email-masked]> wrote:
> >> not changed the auto-export and auto-reset settings at all for a week.
>
> > Thanks; we'll have to dig into this, as that's clearly not the desired (or expected) behavior.
>
> > -rob.
>
> > --

---

From: Visnu Pitiyanuvath <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 14:54:07 -0800

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 19:25:05 -0800

-rob.

---

From: visnu pitiyanuvath <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:53:04 -0800 (PST)

On Feb 5, 5:29 pm, visnu pitiyanuvath <[email-masked]> wrote:
> awesome. I'll keep an eye open for it.
>
> On Feb 5, 5:45 am, Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > hm, ok. so I have what looks like an abbreviated 2011-02-04.csv that was created today at 9:16AM (when I woke my computer from sleep). all it contains is:
>
> > >> If he checked auto-resetting in the evening of Feb 3, hours after he checked auto-exporting, this could happen. If TS hasn't auto-reset on a given day already (and if the time of day criterion is met), checking the option will cause an instant auto-reset, which should have been visible in TS's UI as well.
>
> > >> Going forward, as long as he keeps both options enabled, there shouldn't be any more problems, because this is how it basically works (pseudo-code):
>
> > >> (For simplicity, I'm treating both auto-reset options as one in this representation.)
>
> > >> As you can see, there's simply no way these will run in the wrong order during normal operation, unless either auto-export or auto-reset has been freshly enabled.
>
> > So at this point, it should be working right -- as long as both settings are enabled. If you see it again, though, please let us know.
>
> > regards,
> > -rob.

---

From: visnu pitiyanuvath <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 17:29:57 -0800 (PST)

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 05:45:00 -0800

regards,
-rob.

---

From: visnu pitiyanuvath <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:25:53 -0800 (PST)

if it helps, I posted my auto-exported reports 
at https://gist.github.com/a38ef53f4a07440d41e0

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 14:32:12 -0800

> hm, ok. so I have what looks like an abbreviated 2011-02-04.csv that was created today at 9:16AM (when I woke my computer from sleep). all it contains is:

We'll look into this; you shouldn't lose anything, based on how the timer/reset function is tied together.

regards,
-rob.

---

From: visnu pitiyanuvath <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 14:14:38 -0800 (PST)

Pool,Application,Window,Foreground Begin (Unix Time),Foreground End (Unix 
Time)
,Mail,,1296805300.17,1296805318.80
,Mail,,1296805320.33,1296805334.59
,WebKit,,1296805335.10,1296805336.63

start and ends times are:

1296805300.17  => Thu Feb 03 23:41:40 -0800 2011 
1296805336.63 => Thu Feb 03 23:42:16 -0800 2011

and I have a 2011-02-03.csv (looks complete) with start and end times of:

1296719958.31 => Wed Feb 02 23:59:18 -0800 2011 
1296753783.91 => Thu Feb 03 09:23:03 -0800 2011 

so I had thought something weird was up with auto-reset and auto-export: I 
seem to have lost feb 3 data.

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:38:31 -0800

On Feb 4, 2011, at 12:17 PM, visnu pitiyanuvath wrote:

> boiling down my suggestion though: tie auto-export and auto-reset together so that right after the export is done, it can then do a reset (otherwise if reset runs first, I lose data).

They actually are tied together: if auto-export is enabled along with auto-reset, then auto-export will be triggered immediately before the reset.

-rob.

---

From: visnu pitiyanuvath <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:17:50 -0800 (PST)

what are the best settings for auto-export + auto-reset? ideally, I want 
auto-export to do the reset right after. I'm trying to use time sink to 
track hours for consulting and most of the time I'll enter them at the end 
of the day, but when I miss them, I want to depend on the export csvs being 
there so I can mine them for the same data.

though, I'm starting to think now that I should just not reset and use the 
activity report's time range feature to do what I want.

boiling down my suggestion though: tie auto-export and auto-reset together 
so that right after the export is done, it can then do a reset (otherwise if 
reset runs first, I lose data).