Subject: Re: [Witch Talk] Witch and X11

From: David Rees <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 14:25:35 -0800 (PST)

I have been :/, sure wish I could control X11 windows like the others. Sigh.

On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 10:27:44 PM UTC-8, Many Tricks wrote:
>
> On Dec 11, 2018, at 9:22 PM, David Rees <[email-masked] <javascript:>> 
> wrote: 
>
> > FYI, New bug # for this with XQuartz is 
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100541. Still no movement 
> :/. 
>
> Thanks for the heads up ... and good thing I haven't been holding my 
> breath ;). 
>
> -rob.

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 22:27:42 -0800

On Dec 11, 2018, at 9:22 PM, David Rees <[email-masked]> wrote:

> FYI, New bug # for this with XQuartz is https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100541. Still no movement :/.

Thanks for the heads up ... and good thing I haven't been holding my breath ;).

-rob.

---

From: David Rees <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 21:22:09 -0800 (PST)

FYI, New bug # for this with XQuartz 
is https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100541. Still no movement 
:/.

On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 2:16:54 PM UTC-7, Many Tricks wrote:
>
> On Aug 19, 2015, at 12:56 PM, [email-masked] <javascript:> wrote: 
>
> > The Dock seems to know about open X11 apps (right click on an icon, it 
> gives the list of open windows, just like any other app). 
>
> Yes, the Dock has access to many APIs that we're not allowed to use. It 
> can do many magical things that any developer (in the App Store, at least) 
> can't do. Witch 4, which won't be available in the App Store, may be able 
> to use some of those private APIs. But that probably won't help with X11 
> (see below). 
>
> > And Accessibility Inspector seems to know how to look at this (when you 
> do the above with it running, it shows some relevant data). 
>
> But it doesn't show an accessibilityTitle, which is the field that Witch 
> needs in order to do its thing. 
>
> > So perhaps there's hope after all...?  Maybe they opened it up a little 
> more in recent versions?  (I'm on 10.10.4.) 
>
> No, nothing's changed relative to what Witch needs to work -- without the 
> accessibilityTitle, we can't support X11 apps in Witch 3. In Witch 4, using 
> private APIs, we may (may!) be able to provide some basic support, but you 
> wouldn't be able to interact (close, quit, minimize) those windows. 
>
> Sorry; 
> -rob.

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 14:16:53 -0700

On Aug 19, 2015, at 12:56 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

> The Dock seems to know about open X11 apps (right click on an icon, it gives the list of open windows, just like any other app).

Yes, the Dock has access to many APIs that we're not allowed to use. It can do many magical things that any developer (in the App Store, at least) can't do. Witch 4, which won't be available in the App Store, may be able to use some of those private APIs. But that probably won't help with X11 (see below).

> And Accessibility Inspector seems to know how to look at this (when you do the above with it running, it shows some relevant data).

But it doesn't show an accessibilityTitle, which is the field that Witch needs in order to do its thing. 

> So perhaps there's hope after all...?  Maybe they opened it up a little more in recent versions?  (I'm on 10.10.4.)

No, nothing's changed relative to what Witch needs to work -- without the accessibilityTitle, we can't support X11 apps in Witch 3. In Witch 4, using private APIs, we may (may!) be able to provide some basic support, but you wouldn't be able to interact (close, quit, minimize) those windows.

Sorry;
-rob.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:56:49 -0700 (PDT)

Hi guys.

And Accessibility Inspector seems to know how to look at this (when you do 
the above with it running, it shows some relevant data).

> Just an observation: OSX Expose works fine with X11 windows (see the 
> attached screenshot).  So at least Apple knows how to get all X11 windows, 
> correct? 
>
> Apple can use private APIs, while we cannot. And to Exposé a window is 
> still somewhat simpler than what we're trying to do, because Witch allows 
> you to interact with those windows. 
>

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 06:24:02 -0700

On Oct 20, 2014, at 4:11 AM, Yijiang Sun <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Just an observation: OSX Expose works fine with X11 windows (see the attached screenshot).  So at least Apple knows how to get all X11 windows, correct?

Apple can use private APIs, while we cannot. And to Exposé a window is still somewhat simpler than what we're trying to do, because Witch allows you to interact with those windows.

Trust us, we'd add this if we could. But we can't.

regards,
-rob.

---

From: Yijiang Sun <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 04:11:02 -0700 (PDT)

Just hope this helps.

Best,
Yijiang

On 25 Mar, 2011, at 14:44 , Rob Griffiths wrote:
>
> > Peter (Many Tricks' programmer and founder) discovered that it's already 
> in their system, and has been for quite a while:
> > 
> > <http://xquartz.macosforge.org/trac/ticket/244>
> > 
> > It doesn't seem this is simple for them to do, nor does it appear it's 
> going to happen any time soon. Sorry for the not-so-good answer, but that 
> seems to be where we're at with X11.
>
> That doesn't look good indeed :-(
>
> Konrad.
>
>
>

---

From: Konrad Hinsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:27:41 +0100

On 25 Mar, 2011, at 14:44 , Rob Griffiths wrote:

> Peter (Many Tricks' programmer and founder) discovered that it's already in their system, and has been for quite a while:
> 
> It doesn't seem this is simple for them to do, nor does it appear it's going to happen any time soon. Sorry for the not-so-good answer, but that seems to be where we're at with X11.

Konrad.

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:44:53 -0700

On Mar 24, 2011, at 11:09 AM, Konrad Hinsen wrote:

> Could you try submitting a bug report or feature request with the Xquartz project (http://xquartz.macosforge.org/trac/wiki)? The developers are probably more reactive than Apple, and if they add the required support, then there is at least a simple way to use Witch with X11, even if it requires installing a second X server.

regards,
-rob.

---

From: Konrad Hinsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 19:09:36 +0100

On 24/3/11 15:15 , Rob Griffiths wrote:

> X11 will probably never work right with Witch, barring improvements from Apple. The windows in X11 don't exist to the system; when Witch inquires about windows, all X11 tells us is "X11 is running." We can't see anything within X11, so that's why you see X11 without any active windows.
>
> Same problem with the zooming; as far as Witch knows, there are no X11 windows, so there's nothing to zoom.
>
> To make this work better, Apple would need to add full Accessibility API support to X11, as that's how Witch gets its window information. As we work on Witch 4, we'll see if we can find other (Apple approved) workarounds to provide some X11 window information, but it may never get better than what it is now.

Could you try submitting a bug report or feature request with the 
Xquartz project (http://xquartz.macosforge.org/trac/wiki)? The 
developers are probably more reactive than Apple, and if they add the 
required support, then there is at least a simple way to use Witch with 
X11, even if it requires installing a second X server.

Konrad.

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 07:15:17 -0700

On Mar 24, 2011, at 6:48 AM, khinsen wrote:

> 1) X11 windows never show up in the window list. Instead, the X11 app
> is shown as having no active Windows.
> 
> 2)  I have a keyboard shortcut defined for zooming the frontmost
> window. It does nothing at all when the frontmost window belongs to
> X11.
> 
> Are there perhaps some configuration settings that I can use to
> improve X11 compatibility? Almost 1/3 of my windows belong to X11, so
> this is quite important for me.

regards,
-rob.

---

From: khinsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 06:48:52 -0700 (PDT)

Witch seems to have some problems with X11 windows:

Thanks in advance,
  Konrad.