Subject: Re: [Witch Talk] Bad support for Sublime Text

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 15:59:04 -0800

On Nov 11, 2015, at 7:42 PM, jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Thats strange, whois always looks for top-level domain, which should be `whois tiye.me`. You may try curl to find out if HTML is there or not:

It did eventually run. 

> Here is a screenshot:

You can get much of that done in Witch today by customizing a layout. Witch 4 will have many different layout options, and we'll keep your feedback in mind once we start working on it (no timeframe as of yet).

regards,
-rob.

---

From: jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 03:42:32 +0000

Thats strange, whois always looks for top-level domain, which should be
`whois tiye.me`. You may try curl to find out if HTML is there or not:

curl http://repo.tiye.me/window-switcher-style/

Here is a screenshot:

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:36 AM Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]> wrote:

> On Nov 11, 2015, at 6:33 PM, jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> Well, my demo is finished, try `Option Q` on this page:
> http://repo.tiye.me/window-switcher-style/
>
>
> I can't load that URL - the server comes up not found. I checked WHOIS,
> and there's no entry:
>
> $ whois repo.tiye.me
> NOT FOUND
>
> * use only less vivider colors for background, to help user focus on icons
> and text
> * large padding to make icons and text obvious
> * make icons the most important in user's sight
> * highlight the color the whole line and help user find the position
> * enough line height, make text more readable
> * no borders, no round corners, make this menu really simple to read in
> many cases
>
> This looks more like Windows 10 style, but I think it's more efficient.
> hope it helps.
>
>
> I look forward to seeing it.
>
> regards,
> -rob.
>
> --
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---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:36:40 -0800

On Nov 11, 2015, at 6:33 PM, jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://repo.tiye.me/window-switcher-style/ <http://repo.tiye.me/window-switcher-style/>

I can't load that URL - the server comes up not found. I checked WHOIS, and there's no entry:

$ whois repo.tiye.me
NOT FOUND

> * use only less vivider colors for background, to help user focus on icons and text
> * no borders, no round corners, make this menu really simple to read in many cases
> 
> This looks more like Windows 10 style, but I think it's more efficient. hope it helps.

regards,
-rob.

---

From: jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 02:35:02 +0000

Forgot to mention, my demo runs on Chrome only due to the Flexbox issue.
It's not centered in Safari.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:33 AM jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]> wrote:

> https://github.com/jiyinyiyong/window-switcher-style
>
> My points:
>
> Thanks.
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 10:03 AM jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>> So the icon issue is now solved, thanks for your screenshot. Apple is
>> really making window switcher less efficient comparing to Microsoft.
>> Looking forward to 4 :P
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 1:33 AM Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2015, at 7:43 AM, jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>
>>> For the Sublime Text Issue. Can I make it showing Sublime Text icon all
>>> the way? You see, as I program with Sublime Text, it could be any file
>>> extension, while the Windows itself is always Sublime Text. I do think that
>>> changing icon is misleading.
>>>
>>>
>>> Set Witch's preferences to show application icons, not document icons
>>> (on the Appearance tab):
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, I trying to be fast in some ways, like removing the rounded
>>> corners for reading the text faster. Or even showing the menu all the time
>>>
>>>
>>> For me, the rounded corners don't affect readability, because I'm
>>> reading text (or icons), not looking at the box. The box just serves to
>>> focus my eyes on the window that will be activated, which is Witch's key
>>> feature.
>>>
>>> somewhere so I can aways know I'm how many key strokes away from the
>>> window I want. That's how I hope Witch help me with my efficiency of
>>>
>>>
>>> Keeping the window onscreen all the time would be nearly impossible,
>>> because of what I mentioned earlier: our need to poll every app every time
>>> you invoke Witch. If the panel is onscreen all the time, then we'd have to
>>> constantly ask all apps for a list of windows. CPU usage would go way up,
>>> and the list still might be out of date if we don't get a reply in time.
>>>
>>> There's a reason Apple only ships with an app switcher and not a window
>>> switcher - it's not easy to do. :)
>>>
>>> Is that OK I demonstrate my needs in HTML/JavaScript next week, see if
>>> there's any improvement to us both? I'm working with JavaScript for years
>>> but just never wrote OS X apps.
>>>
>>>
>>> You can demonstrate whatever you wish, yes, and we'll keep it in mind as
>>> we work on Witch 4. Just realize that things you may show may not be
>>> possible due to technical issues. But we'll certainly try to make it more
>>> usable for you, based on what you want to see.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> -rob.
>>>
>>> --
>>> --

---

From: jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 02:33:38 +0000

My points:

Thanks.

On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 10:03 AM jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]> wrote:

>> Set Witch's preferences to show application icons, not document icons (on
>> the Appearance tab):
>>
>>
>> Also, I trying to be fast in some ways, like removing the rounded corners
>> for reading the text faster. Or even showing the menu all the time
>>
>>
>> For me, the rounded corners don't affect readability, because I'm reading
>> text (or icons), not looking at the box. The box just serves to focus my
>> eyes on the window that will be activated, which is Witch's key feature.
>>

---

From: jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 02:03:07 +0000

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 09:33:48 -0800

On Nov 5, 2015, at 7:43 AM, jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]> wrote:

> For the Sublime Text Issue. Can I make it showing Sublime Text icon all the way? You see, as I program with Sublime Text, it could be any file extension, while the Windows itself is always Sublime Text. I do think that changing icon is misleading.

Set Witch's preferences to show application icons, not document icons (on the Appearance tab):

> Also, I trying to be fast in some ways, like removing the rounded corners for reading the text faster. Or even showing the menu all the time

For me, the rounded corners don't affect readability, because I'm reading text (or icons), not looking at the box. The box just serves to focus my eyes on the window that will be activated, which is Witch's key feature.

> somewhere so I can aways know I'm how many key strokes away from the window I want. That's how I hope Witch help me with my efficiency of

Keeping the window onscreen all the time would be nearly impossible, because of what I mentioned earlier: our need to poll every app every time you invoke Witch. If the panel is onscreen all the time, then we'd have to constantly ask all apps for a list of windows. CPU usage would go way up, and the list still might be out of date if we don't get a reply in time.

There's a reason Apple only ships with an app switcher and not a window switcher - it's not easy to do. :)

> Is that OK I demonstrate my needs in HTML/JavaScript next week, see if there's any improvement to us both? I'm working with JavaScript for years but just never wrote OS X apps.

You can demonstrate whatever you wish, yes, and we'll keep it in mind as we work on Witch 4. Just realize that things you may show may not be possible due to technical issues. But we'll certainly try to make it more usable for you, based on what you want to see.

regards,
-rob.

---

From: jiyinyiyong <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:43:50 +0000

For the Sublime Text Issue. Can I make it showing Sublime Text icon all the
way? You see, as I program with Sublime Text, it could be any file
extension, while the Windows itself is always Sublime Text. I do think that
changing icon is misleading.

For the speed issue, Witch's UI is fast enough for me, I was just talking
about the UI. So when someone is looking at something quickly, he sees the
outline, or the most vivid colors, or the largest fonts, these things are
guiding his eyes so that he can recognize images quickly, [as talked in
this post][1]. It's like my eye is look for the main shape of my current
user interface and fill the minor details with my imagination, so I can
move among windows really fast. And back to the Sublime Text icons, I think
they are not guiding my eyes in the right way and as a result slowing me
down.

[1]:
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2014/03/design-principles-visual-perception-and-the-principles-of-gestalt/

Also, I trying to be fast in some ways, like removing the rounded corners
for reading the text faster. Or even showing the menu all the time
somewhere so I can aways know I'm how many key strokes away from the window
I want. That's how I hope Witch help me with my efficiency of managing
windows. But you said you are leaving choices to all users, actually I'm
not sure people may agree with my way of being faster.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:42 PM Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]> wrote:

> On Nov 4, 2015, at 10:54 PM, Jiyin Yiyong <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> Try Sublime Text, the icon for Sublime Text is open wrong according to the
> file name.
>
>
> I don't understand what you're saying here - the application icon looks
> fine to me:
>
>
> If I open a saved document, I see a generic document icon -- but that's
> exactly that I see in Finder, too:
>
>
>
> What's not working for you?
>
> And Witch's menu style is slowing me down. Did you take researches on
> this, how people will recognize icons and titles as far as possible with
> even a short glance? Is the rounded border guiding my eyes? Sans Serif or
> Serif?
>
>
> We're a two-person company with one programmer and one tech support
> person. If we had the budget, sure, we'd love to do a massive study and
> find what the ideal UI is ... and yet, even if we did all that, we'd find
> users who didn't like the ideal that we chose. So that's why you can
> control early every element of the Witch UI—turn off the highlight border,
> for instance. Set the background color of the selected UI element to
> transparent. Pick serif or sans serif. Change every single color in the UI.
> And so on.
>
> Using this, you can make Witch look like whatever you want:
>
>
> I wouldn't use such a setting myself, but anything (except removing the
> general rounded border) is basically possible.
>
> I like the way Witch helping me find my windows. I still want it to be
> faster.
>
>
> So do we, but we have to query every running application and ask them for
> a list of open windows, then wait for them to reply, then display the
> pop-up. And there's no way to do that polling — at least using APIs that
> Apple lets us use — without going through this formal process of asking and
> waiting. And that can take time.
>
> regards,
> -rob.
>
> --
> --

---

From: Rob Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 06:42:14 -0800

On Nov 4, 2015, at 10:54 PM, Jiyin Yiyong <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Try Sublime Text, the icon for Sublime Text is open wrong according to the file name.

I don't understand what you're saying here - the application icon looks fine to me:

If I open a saved document, I see a generic document icon -- but that's exactly that I see in Finder, too:

> And Witch's menu style is slowing me down. Did you take researches on this, how people will recognize icons and titles as far as possible with even a short glance? Is the rounded border guiding my eyes? Sans Serif or Serif?

We're a two-person company with one programmer and one tech support person. If we had the budget, sure, we'd love to do a massive study and find what the ideal UI is ... and yet, even if we did all that, we'd find users who didn't like the ideal that we chose. So that's why you can control early every element of the Witch UI—turn off the highlight border, for instance. Set the background color of the selected UI element to transparent. Pick serif or sans serif. Change every single color in the UI. And so on.

I wouldn't use such a setting myself, but anything (except removing the general rounded border) is basically possible.

> I like the way Witch helping me find my windows. I still want it to be faster.

So do we, but we have to query every running application and ask them for a list of open windows, then wait for them to reply, then display the pop-up. And there's no way to do that polling — at least using APIs that Apple lets us use — without going through this formal process of asking and waiting. And that can take time.

regards,
-rob.

---

From: Jiyin Yiyong <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 22:54:14 -0800 (PST)

And Witch's menu style is slowing me down. Did you take researches on this, 
how people will recognize icons and titles as far as possible with even a 
short glance? Is the rounded border guiding my eyes? Sans Serif or Serif?

Thanks.